W1siziisijiwmtuvmdivmtivmtyvmzyvmdqvnteyl0f2yxrhci5wbmcixsxbinailcj0ahvtyiisijmwmhgzmdajil1d?sha=40d429a2ffd553af
In reply to: hmans.io/gxr532
Also a reply to gbw499: Sorry if I came off as harsh, I didn’t mean to bad mouth pants in any way!

Also a reply to gbw499: Sorry if I came off as harsh, I didn’t mean to bad mouth pants in any way! Not only would it be highly hypocritical given that I’m running pants here, but I also really really really like it.

The mass market, whatever or whoever that is, will never be interested in Pants. People generally want things to be convenient first, good second; even if they claim something else, just like everyone complaining about how shitty WhatsApp is, but still keep using it (Disclaimer: I use WhatsApp and generally have no beef with it.)

I think this is the underlying issue at play. Although I don’t think that really is an issue, I personally prefer a car that is convenient to use for me, but I don’t mind putting some effort into setting up and maintaining pants on my server. I think it’s really easy to drift into an elitist kind of thinking over this, or an us vs them mentality, but I think it really boils down to where people put their priorities.

Pants works, it might be more niche than Twitter, but its not a dead duck in the water without anyone using it. And I think similar projects can succeed and thrive as well. Heck, I wouldn’t even go as far as saying that pants or similar projects can’t or won’t ever bring in a dime, I do believe that a Facebook like IPO is not going to happen, but I don’t think there is much in the way of being profitable. Look at the BSD flavours out there, people pay/donate for projects they personally like, or look at the various other open and ideologically driven projects.

As for my personal opinion, I agree with a lot of what you said, I just think that this isn’t just a black/white thing where things like Pants are right and Twitter is wrong. I also thought it was amusing that I very much love my pants instance but go out at day and work on something that is almost the polar opposite from and ideological standpoint.

I don’t care how mass marketable Pants is. To me, it’s the best thing ever, and I can’t be stopped.

Good. Last but not least, it is your project and since you are investing time and work into it, you should be who gets the most joy out of creating it.

The good news is that things aren’t looking nearly as bleak as I once made them out to be. The big new version of Pants that I’m working on is shaping up nicely.

This is very very exciting to hear! Is there any way to support you without contributing code to the project? I don’t know any Ruby and I have no idea about RoR, and quite frankly not the time to put work into yet another hobby project.

Replies

Don’t worry, I didn’t think you were being harsh, or even badmouthing Pants.

Also a reply to gbw499: Sorry if I came off as harsh, I didn’t mean to bad mouth pants in any way! Not only would it be highly hypocritical given that I’m running pants here, but I also really really really like it.

Don’t worry, I didn’t think you were being harsh, or even badmouthing Pants. It’s all good! :)

I think this is the underlying issue at play. Although I don’t think that really is an issue, I personally prefer a car that is convenient to use for me, but I don’t mind putting some effort into setting up and maintaining pants on my server. I think it’s really easy to drift into an elitist kind of thinking over this, or an us vs them mentality, but I think it really boils down to where people put their priorities.

This. And this is exactly my thinking; I’m okay with people using messengers that have been proven insecure over and over again. I’m okay with people using social networks that have been proven to use their users’ data for less than noble purposes. I’m okay with people reading tabloid newspapers that have been proven to bend the truth when it fits them. I realize I’m sounding sarcastic, but I’m seriously, honestly, utterly okay with all of this. I’m probably one of the last people to get worked up about issues like these. It’s hard to imagine, but I’m actually a very laid-back person.

What I’m generally not okay with is when people give up. When people go “I hate Facebook, but what can you do”. When people don’t even understand that there is a whole World Wide Web behind the fancy apps they’re using. I’m not okay with this because the Web is and has always been trivially easy to get involved with. The barrier to contributing to, or even just claiming your own little corner of the web has always been extremely, laughably low, today even more than before.

But giving up is putting all of this at risk. Giving up shows that simplicity isn’t worth fighting for. Giving up is what leads to gated marketplaces where only manufacturer-sanctioned tools, ideas and opinions are allowed. This is the Anti-Web. I don’t want it, and neither should anyone else.

Pants is just my attempt at tipping the scales the other way. As the maintainer of the project, it’s personally important to me that people use and enjoy Pants (because if they do, I’ve been doing things right), but as someone who loves the Web, I don’t really care if you use Pants or just set up your own webpage somewhere or maybe even just do something seemingly trivial like partaking in a forum outside of Facebook. The Web is important, and people should be reminded that it’s out there.

This is very very exciting to hear! Is there any way to support you without contributing code to the project? I don’t know any Ruby and I have no idea about RoR, and quite frankly not the time to put work into yet another hobby project.

It’s probably too early as this new version (the Github project is here) is still very much in flux. I’ve gone to some lengths to map out the remaining work in the issue tracker, specifically marking issues that I already know I’ll need some help with with a help-needed label. Generally, though, I’d like to roll it out first before opening it up to pull requests et al. We’re definitely talking about another couple of weeks minimum.

    This document is webmention enabled.